Arturia Forums
Harware Legacy versions => Origin => General Discussion on Origin => Topic started by: JacksonP on May 17, 2012, 08:54:28 pm
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Hi Origin users and developers,
I am not very professional what comes to using arpeggiators, but little by little I am learning...
Anyway I've noticed that there's a difference between Origin arpeggiator and for example my Korg Radias arpeggiator. When "latch" button is on in Radias, its arp. will trigger notes that are played together. Then, if you take your hand off the keyboard and play another set of tones, it will take these tones to arp without interrupting arp. Origin with "hold" button on, behaves more like sustain pedal: it sums all the successive notes or chords together. So with this (hold) functionality it's seems inmpossiböe to change chord on the fly without interrupting arpeggiator.
Once again this is a question from a live stage oriented player. I'd like Origin to have a chance behave like Radias: you could give arpeggiator a chord with hold/latch on and then have your both hands free and arpeggiator running and then give another chord and same thing.
On the other hand, the summing (or sustain pedal -like) hold function is a nice too in some cases. Maybe it would be possible to save in preset settings, how "hold" will behave: latch vs. sustain pedal way.
Is this a reasonable question or am I missing something important?
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I agree, on my Novation synth, which has an excellent programmable argegiator, when it is used with hold, it behaves as you describe for the Korg. When you hit a new chord, the arpegio changes and the old chord is disguared. This has been the case on every synth that I've played, except the Origin. It was a surprise for me that the Origin does not have this behaviour, which seems the "standard" approach.
I would like this behaviour for the Origin too, at least as an option.
Andreas
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I agree, this would be a good feature to include if it is possible.
Chimpy.
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Yes that would be a cool feature :)
I don't know the Radias. Do you mean that there is a dedicated switch that tells the arpeggiator to work in that "Latch" mode? The "Hold" button on Origin has the same function than a sustain pedal so it would be difficult to use this switch to set a possible Arpeggio "Latch" mode.
And how does it work? For instance, if you play - say - a 3 notes chord, release that chord and play a 2 notes chord?
Thx
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On the Nova, the button is called "Latch" and if I hit down a 3 note chord I get an apr based around those three notes which plays. If I then hit a 2 note chord, the original arp is dropped and a new arp based around the 2 new notes is played.
Andreas
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im not sure I understand but sounds like what you are asking for is polyphonic arpeggiator.
with the hold button down the arpeggiator behaves exactly as it should being that it is a monophonic arpeggiator, not polyphonic. it will only play one note/voice at a time. So moving from one chord to another it will step through each note you are playing, even when playing a chord.
sounds like you want the arpeggiator to be polyphonic where it is arpeggiating an entire chord (multiple voices) at once in a step pattern.
-o
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I think this is not question about monophonic vs. polyphonic.
For example Radias' arpeggiator works like this:
It takes your (1st) chord to arpeggiator and runs it forwards and backward (like it is in Origin). "Latch" button on, you can take your hand out of the keyboard and still it does this arpeggiation. But when you've done that (you have taken your hand off), still running arpeggiator is ready for taking another set of tones. If you play one note, then you'll hear one note arpeggiating. If you play chord, then you'll hear chord arpeggiating.
IMO this is much more useful than one which is in Origin. If I had to choose, I'd take this Radias-like arpeggiator in Origin. But as I said, it would be great to have both: there are cases (or songs) when hold-button way is nice too. I might wanna start my arp with just one or two notes and then give it little by little few more notes (and all this is possible by giving them one by one). To be really useful, this option (let's cal it "latch/hold") should be possible to save in preset. So some preset would then work "latchlike" and other with "holdlike". If this is not possible, another way is to make it in system menu level, but this is not that effective. Or is there some button that could be used as "latch"?
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To be really useful, this option (let's cal it "latch/hold") should be possible to save in preset. So some preset would then work "latchlike" and other with "hold like".
Or is there some button that could be used as "latch"?
The only switch that could be used is the "Hold" switch which has the same action as a sustain pedal. What we could do (that's a personal opinion and nothing else for the moment) is to add a parameter to the preset - or to the Arpeggiator - to tell it wether it should interpret the switch as a "Sustain" or as a "Latch". That's not a very simple modification in Origin. I would have to rewrite the routing of the note events so that the Arpeggio could be placed before (in Latch mode) or after (in Sustain mode) the hold buffer. A bit of work but doable.
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While I understand that you have probably enough work with 1.4 update, I'd still say that this arpeggiator thing is quite important fix. Now when we understand whole thing better, we see that this "latch" function is something that people treat normal behaviour of arpeggiator. Origin's "hold" is something not so typical. I think if I had both options, I would use latch maybe 85% of my time...
Anyway Origin is a great piece of work! Masterpiece itself...
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Origin's "hold" is something not so typical. I think if I had both options, I would use latch maybe 85% of my time...
Plenty of vintage analog synths and modern synths do exactly what Origin does for the hold function along with the arpeggiator: function as a "sustain". The Jupiter-6 and Jupiter-8, 30+ year old synths, works exactly this way.
Sure, there are synths out there with latch, but saying the Origin method is "not typical" is not an accurate statement at all.
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Ok. Thanks for correction. Anyway still I think people that are used to little more newer things like Radias, would expect latch-kind of functioning. And as I said, it would be of course best to have both options. But If I had to choose just one of them, I'd take "latch". It's just much more playable for live-player like myself. This is IMO the most important question. What would you prefer?
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I played a little with the Ob SEM V which has a "Latch" feature implemented in its arpeggio (it's named "HOLD" on the GUI). What I noticed is that :
- when the "Latch" mode is ON, then the only way to stop the arpeggiated notes is to switch back to the Arpeggio "Sustain" mode (named "ON" on the Ob SEM V GUI) or "OFF" mode,
- when the "Latch" mode is ON and the chord is released, then it is arpeggiated until a new set of notes is played,
- when a new chord is played, then the "old" chord stops being arpeggiated and is replaced by the new one.
So far this is the expected behaviour of the Latch mode.
Also - while in "Latch" mode - when the sustain pedal is ON, any new note played is added to the current arpeggio, which is the expected "Sustain" mode behaviour. It means that the action of the sustain pedal is not switched OFF - from the Arpeggio point of view - when the "Latch" mode is ON.
Would this "coexistence behaviour" be OK?
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While I'm not a bit arpeggiator user myself, I think that more flexible approach would be a very good addition to Origin's functionality. I think most musicians would welcome that, since the more a synth can do, the more useful and powerful it is.
But as others have said, I'd focus on getting 1.4 finalized first, as I'm holding out on the finished build. I have plenty to do while I wait.
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But as others have said, I'd focus on getting 1.4 finalized first, as I'm holding out on the finished build. I have plenty to do while I wait.
Yes of course. I'm preparing a new pre-release downloadable update. Should be available tomorrow.
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phillipe: yes, the addition of "latch" in conjunction with hold would be a welcome addition. I use arpeggiators ALOT.
-o
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....
Also - while in "Latch" mode - when the sustain pedal is ON, any new note played is added to the current arpeggio, which is the expected "Sustain" mode behaviour. It means that the action of the sustain pedal is not switched OFF - from the Arpeggio point of view - when the "Latch" mode is ON.
Would this "coexistence behaviour" be OK?
This sounds very reasonable. I hope we'll have latch in future....!!!! :) I have resently "re-found" Origin's arpeggiator because of my Radias. Those two sync/mix beautifully together. And Radias has one obvious advantage for live usage: you can sen a perc/click track to drummer from it's individual out and this perc track can mixed or leaved out from Radias main mix. Very important for timing. And Radias' arpeggiator/step sequencer is perfectly synced to its drumseq.
One another remark: IMO Radias sounds much better when I use it Origin's slot with some Origin modules (filters, compression etc). Origin seems go give Radias some punch which it is maybe normally lacking.
About new pre-release 1.4. Philippe please: give an idea of things (or bugs) which it tries to fix compared its precedessor...
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Sorry, little off-topic but still about arpeggiators...
Resently I've been messing with Origin's and Radias' arpeggiators and modulation sequecers. I've taken MIDI time sync from Radias to Origin and basically this way it works fine. Still I find it difficult to make them play well synced together. For example, I put Radias arp/seq on and then hit Origin. Sometimes I can find the correct time point and more often not. Of course it's a lot about my timing but I'd like to know that are there any tricks to make it easier? Basically I am talking about live arp/seq playing without computers... ???