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Author Topic: No Audio in Triggering Gate?  (Read 1379 times)

caseonfire

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No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« on: January 29, 2013, 01:03:25 pm »
Manual:
"In Audio mode, a gate signal is generated when the signal level at the AUDIO In [4.3.5] reaches an internally preset threshold."
and
"The AUDIO In signal can also trigger the MiniBrute envelopes if you select Audio as the Gate Source [4.3.4]."

I've set the threshold audio in to low in the connection software, but still no sound when I route audio in and set the gate source to audio
I don't get it....I've seen at Namm people do this with the new MS-20....Why doesn't it work with minibrute....what do I do wrong?

What I want is let audio in trigger the gate....anyone??????


caseonfire

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2013, 01:18:46 pm »

sparki

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2013, 09:41:39 pm »
+1
same problem here...

@caseonfire
it kind of works for me if i make the audio VERY loud in my DAW, i mean really f*ck!n loud, so loud that it clips.
so for me its impossible to get the MB triggered by audio with a CLEAN signal.
im pretty sure thats not the way it should be...
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caseonfire

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2013, 01:14:48 pm »
I am pretty sure too! Arturia put in the wrong resistor for audio in...
and it's a hardware problem...which s#cks

If we are doing something wrong please tell us Bruno..
but it's our belief the audio in is way too low volume
to be workable in any way...

bobby68

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 10:10:36 am »
I got it to work with a MFB 503 drum machine. But the 503 have a very hot output.

It didn't work with my Roland RS-09 String Synthesizer, even if I set the output to High (The RS-09 have Low, Mid and High on the output).

I'm pretty sure it's a hardware problem on the MiniBrute, and there is probably nothing that we, or Arturia, can do about it.

stevism

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2013, 02:36:21 am »
it's hardware and related to a thread i started found here:

http://www.arturia.com/evolution/smf/index.php?topic=12197.0

sparki

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2013, 07:09:39 am »
if its a hardware problem, then arturia have to fix this. the audio in is one of the features i buyed the MB for, so i dont get what i have paid for.
its really sad, that nobody of the stuff is responding on this thread, but im pretty sure they know why...
ive also speak to they guy at the shop where i buyed the MB, explaining him that it seems that its a hardware failure and all of the brutes in his store have this problem. he now will send all his MB back to arturia, and hope to get fixed ones back. i hope that arturia will take those broken MBs back or fix it.
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zedius

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2013, 07:54:45 pm »
I'm not saying this is not a problem - I have not tested mine - but please read the thread linked by Stevism and the posts from Bruno regarding the need to handle modular signals. This does not appear to be a mistake, but a decision that was made to allow larger than average signals.

You could try running your signal through something like this: http://ww.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TubeMP/

Or maybe this though I'm not sure: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LPB1

Cheap solutions! Just try to find the cheapest but most transparent gain stage you can. You won't need much.

stevism

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2013, 08:16:03 pm »
yeah it's definitely part of the design...but i think it's a miscalculation of the user-base

seems like it was designed more in the mindset of people with modular setups trying to integrate the minibrute than the more casual user

i run stuff into my cheap behringer 1002fx mixer, then use the minibrute aux in as the receive for the fx out...i can boost enough usually and it works ok for now. i wish i didn't need to though, sometimes i just want to load up my iPhone with drum samples or something and run it through the mb aux in to process and jam along with

caseonfire

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 01:54:35 am »
" sometimes i just want to load up my iPhone with drum samples or something and run it through the mb aux in to process and jam along with"

exactly my point...

Bruno@arturia

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2013, 11:40:24 am »
Indeed it's been a choice during the design, maybe it was a bad one, but now that's the way it is.
I just made some testing with a MP3 player, with an average audio out capabilities. For sure if all the other waveforms are at max level, audio in will be lower that others. But still it's working. If you can have it working, it's still possible that a wrong resistor may have been put at the factory. Can one of you guys can sent me detailed picture of the area between CV jack, and 3 pin connect on the IO pcb? So that I can check components are fine? It should be accurate enough so that I can read marking on the components...

Regarding the audio trig threshold, even at max output on the MP3, is was difficult sometime difficult to make it trig, depending on the wav file used.

For both it's possible do increase audio In gain by changing 1 resistor value. If you are interested I may tell you which one, and which new value to use. But keep in mind it's 0603 SMD components, so very small. You should be either used to do it, either ask someone that is. And of course it will void your warranty.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 03:20:06 pm by Bruno@arturia »
Bruno
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Quinthius

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2013, 02:39:46 pm »
For both it possible do increase audio In gain by changing 1 resistor value. If you are interested I may tell you which one, and which new value to use. But keep in mind it's 0603 SMD components, so very small. You should be either used to do it either ask someone that is. And of course it will void your warranty.

Bruno, I would be very interested to know this for future reference.  I definitely cannot do it now, but I may learn how and if I get comfortable doing it I would be very, very interested to have this information documented so I could go ahead and make the swap in the future at some point (this may be 5-10 years down the road!!).  It would be really great to have a higher audio in, and I know if I learn a little bit about how to do this, I probably would want to change it.

Can you make the information available here, or PM me at least so I can keep it archived in my own files?

sparki

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2013, 08:05:35 pm »
@bruno
thanks for responding finally, but my there is no anwser to my problem.
im fine with the audio in feature, i just mix the osc on a lower level in. thats maybe not perfect, but its totally ok with me.

BUT the triggering just does not work the way it should be.
i dont use mp3 player for triggering, i use f.e. the Arturia Spark, routed through my daw mixer (do you´ve seen the video i made in the other thread?) and it just dont work. why the MB just gets triggered, if the signal is clipping? using the audio in feature parallel is impossible this way!
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tertior

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2013, 08:13:14 pm »
It' s a quick demo of my Kaossilator; who's plug in  my preamp8 and my  preamp8 is plug in the audio in Minibrute; the level of master volume is 1/4 only.


https://soundcloud.com/stream


 If i plug my kaossilator directly in audio  in of MB  I can't hear my Kaossilator at this level.



« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 08:31:56 pm by tertior »

Bruno@arturia

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Re: No Audio in Triggering Gate?
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2013, 11:15:08 am »
Quote
thanks for responding finally
I have been out of office last week...

Quote
but my there is no anwser to my problem.
im fine with the audio in feature, i just mix the osc on a lower level in. thats maybe not perfect, but its totally ok with me.
It is an answer to your problem. Trigger circuit is after the a first amplifier stage, if the overall input volume is too weak, gate will not be triggered. Changing the resistor will increase input gain, so it will drive the trig detector harder.
They are two other solutions:
either you use a pream, as told by tertior
either you can use a compressor (software on your daw output track, or hardware before MB input)
both solutions will drive trigger circuit harder

Quote
BUT the triggering just does not work the way it should be.
i dont use mp3 player for triggering, i use f.e. the Arturia Spark, routed through my daw mixer (do you´ve seen the video i made in the other thread?) and it just dont work. why the MB just gets triggered, if the signal is clipping? using the audio in feature parallel is impossible this way!
It works when your daw is clipping just because the signal is more powerfull, louder and compressed.
What is your sound card? What kind of line output is it using +4dBu, -10dBv?

So basically, either you increase MB internal gain, either you increase signal level before input.
Bruno
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