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Author Topic: Bad news?  (Read 17600 times)

slammah2012

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Bad news?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2008, 03:04:17 pm »
Quote from: "DeFrigge"
Quote from: "slammah2012"
I might add, I have a real hammond, and an ASB B4000 which are very close except for the weight loss, and the prodyssey I have includes a moog filter, and about 10 more oscillators than my original had.....
the sounds are very real... I am seeking the Origin so I can replace my CS80 on the road.... and I look forward to its polyAT which a fantom G wont have...


Hi slammah,

I heard about sonic core, but I don't see devices like the Minimax in the big online stores since a while: so I guess until now there is nothing but *plans* to continue the product line?

Concerning "sounds are very real", opinions differ.
Creamware Minimax and Arp were fine from my view, but not as close as the Arturia emulations.

For me that's not quite the case with the B4000: I regard it as one of the worst Hammond clones on the market, completely missing the warmth of the original, having a basic plastic sound character and sounding especially dreadfull if you play rock, r&b or jazz solos in the upper ranges. I could go into details here, but this is not the place to do so.

So same in this case: no flame war intended. If your judgement is completely other than mine, I have no problems with that.

And for the Fantom G: this is no Synth alternative at all, but a workstation with advanced Live features not to be compared with the Origin. I just can't afford buying both and will decide as I said.


The ASB line is in full "production" at SonicCore.... they are being built ... they recently  lost a distributor however and are in a process of hooking up to a new one...

DeFrigge

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Bad news?
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2008, 08:52:38 pm »
Update on new devices from NAMM 2008.

Announced delivery dates at big German seller:

- Waldorf Blofeld: week 6 / 2008
- Access Virus Snow: week 9 / 2008
- Roland Fantom G: week 17 /2008

- Arturia Origin: not even ocurring at all!!

1. Does this mean Arturia has still not been able to name a delivery date at all to *any* seller?

2. If so, how can *anyone* be optimistic about a delivery date during the next weeks?


I wish the Arturia team success, but trust in this comany is running short among many musicians I know meanwhile (they complain about weak support, terrible delivery delay etc.)...

rcmusic

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Bad news?
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2008, 11:00:05 pm »
i think blofeld has been delayed til march.

HoustonH

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Bad news?
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2008, 03:34:09 pm »
DeFrigge - come on - be realistic. It's like you're trying to threaten or bargain your way into getting an Origin on *your* time table, like the five stages of grief or something.

 :?

It's frustrating to wait, but *no*one* is more frustrated than Arturia. But quite frankly, the only thing that would be worse than being late is being late *and* getting it wrong. This is a very ambitious instrument with many innovative technologies and end user features - and Arturia has learned the "lesson" of seeing the Virus TI falling on its face and has held back its own VSTi integration until they *know* its right. Look at the SonicCore Solaris - they had to switch DSP programmers at the end of last year and now they're considering a change in the core DSP chip they're using on the synth. At the end of the Solaris demo on Sonic State from this year's NAMM show Dave Bowen said that they've essentially had to start over from scratch. What's it been - like two years now? So I think a little bit of perspective is in order.

If you find a synth that meets your needs and is available today - get it today. That's it. If you see Origin and think that it might be 'the answer' for you, then just hold on a bit longer. Either way, remember that it's about the music, and if it's not about that - then you're doing it wrong.
Houston Haynes

DeFrigge

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Bad news?
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2008, 06:56:38 pm »
Hi Houston,

it's rather not meant to "threaten or bargain".

It's meant to give Arturia feedback about two things:
- a) their questionable way of unclear, misleading (one big store telling me the Origin should be delivered in February - adding so probably March - and then taking it from their offers altogether because the old delivery info obviously didn't mean anything any more) or in part non- communication.
- b) a strategically quite questionable decision in their product development (yes, this is *their* decision and has to be respected, but still can be criticized by musicians referring to their 2007 announcement).

concerning a) I know some more keyboarders really feeling disgust about the present kind of non-communication after raising high expectations in 2007. You cant't seriously show a new device on Namm 2007 and not even be able to name a halfway realistic delivery date at Namm 2008! And this while still not even having any mp3 sound demos on your site, just a video showing basic functions without really helpful sound impressions.

concerning -b):
I found the Access way, despite their problems, *much* better. You are right: they delivered the TI when they thought wrong that is was basically stable and only minor things to do. And yes, I had 3 or 4 months using the new device when I experienced big integration flaws and even some standalone issues and found it hard to accept that. But then after their first major upgrade I had nearly no more problems in live use, and after some more upgrades it became my favourite synth so far. Looking back, I was glad to have it early, being able to do music and develop ideas since many months with it. If they had waited until the last update in autumn 2007 before delivery, I would have missed *a* *lot*!

In the Arturia case they decided to change from just delivering the sound modules in hardware form to delivering a clomplex project with full interaction of all parts of the modules plus PC integration. This is a *very* eager project for such a small company, perhaps *too* eager for first edition delivery. From my view a completely wrong decision.

As potential customer I would have much preferred it if they had done it in two steps:
- a) deliver the Origin with separate synth modules in working condition
- b) deliver a major OS upgarde with possible part interaction of all modules

From my view that would be the right way to deal with "it's about the music", because a lot of music with nice sounds could already be used.

What might happen now could be much worse:
- first adding endless delivery delays, perhaps finally ending up anywhere between 1 1/4 and 1 3/4 years after announcement at Namm 2007.
- and then *still* having the users become the "broader/deeper" betatesters who reluctantly find all the flaws that no small beta team does find in short time in such a complex system. So I doubt very much that the still lasting time with unclear delivery date will lead to a flawless (or even halfway flawless) system. sold in the near future.  

Now we have February 2008, and still no mp3s or serious delivery time...

HoustonH

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Bad news?
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2008, 09:05:15 pm »
Look - all of your points are valid, it just doesn't apply to Arturia more than any other company. Prattle on all you want, but you can't believe that you're the tail that will wag the dog.

Name one company who delivered their first hardware synthesizer on time, with all features, and without a single bug.

You can't.

Even my Yamaha SY99 had to have a mainboard replacement because the effects chip would spike the outputs and blow out your amp and speakers - and they are a major manufacturer - using "proven" technology that *still* had a showstopper bug.

Come back to reality. It's not as dire as you would make it seem.
Houston Haynes

DeFrigge

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Bad news?
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2008, 10:57:49 pm »
I'm living in the same reality as you, even concerning keyboards ;-)

But it's not altogether arbitrary and the same with all.

Among all keyboards I ever was interested in after announcement, I can't remember any manufacturer with *that* amount of delay and still unable to communicate a halfway concrete release date...
Though while I think of it, most recent things like Waldorf Zarenbourg come to my mind.


Else I agree:
Announcement habits and quality management have become pure madness in times of short product circles and irresponsible artificial product hype.

Pip

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Bad news?
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2008, 01:17:44 am »
DeFrigge - yup 8)
Later
pip pip pip ... piiip piiip piiiip ... pip pip pip

HoustonH

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Bad news?
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2008, 03:58:40 pm »
If it makes you feel any better, (and somehow I doubt that it will) at least I can verify that the Origin is "in the wild". I just got a desktop unit yesterday. Here's a picture of it stationed temporarily in my studio (on a hefty music stand I typically use for sketching scores).



I'm working on the final touches to the user manual and will do some beta testing and probably a few demos while I'm at it. So, in case you were worried that Arturia was sitting back and lighting cigars with $100 bills, rest assured that they're working very hard and making significant progress toward release.
Houston Haynes

DeFrigge

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Bad news?
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2008, 07:15:39 pm »
Don't worry, I welcome any kind of progress which makes delivery within some weeks even a remote possibility. ;-)
Yes, and I'm looking forward to hear some demos from you to get a first mp3 impression finally. *If* it is possible it would be fine if there could be one or two Jan-Hammer-like Mini lead sounds among them, if you know what I mean.

All the best with writing the final manual revision ...

Pip

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Bad news?
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2008, 11:26:04 am »
Great to see it in the wild 8) , after so much delay a shipping date would be more welcome. That said at least we now know it's close.
Later
pip pip pip ... piiip piiip piiiip ... pip pip pip

johnnyz

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Bad news?
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2008, 05:53:39 am »
Quote from: "HoustonH"
...Look at the SonicCore Solaris - they had to switch DSP programmers at the end of last year and now they're considering a change in the core DSP chip they're using on the synth. At the end of the Solaris demo on Sonic State from this year's NAMM show Dave Bowen said that they've essentially had to start over from scratch. What's it been - like two years now?

Houston,
It's John Bowen, not Dave Bowen - I guess my affiliation with Dave Smith is causing the confusion?
We started the project in October 2006, and the new programmer started in August 2007, so we essentially lost a year of development time.

-john bowen

p.s. technically, it's not SonicCore Solaris - it is my design, and will be sold by my company, John Bowen Synth Design

HoustonH

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Bad news?
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2008, 07:25:32 am »
Quote from: "johnnyz"
Quote from: "HoustonH"
...Look at the SonicCore Solaris - they had to switch DSP programmers at the end of last year and now they're considering a change in the core DSP chip they're using on the synth. At the end of the Solaris demo on Sonic State from this year's NAMM show Dave Bowen said that they've essentially had to start over from scratch. What's it been - like two years now?

Houston,
It's John Bowen, not Dave Bowen - I guess my affiliation with Dave Smith is causing the confusion?
We started the project in October 2006, and the new programmer started in August 2007, so we essentially lost a year of development time.

-john bowen

p.s. technically, it's not SonicCore Solaris - it is my design, and will be sold by my company, John Bowen Synth Design


Thanks for the clarifications. Good luck with your project.
Apologies for the name mixup. I met Dave after-hours at a NAMM show back in the mid 90s when I worked for Bob at Big Briar. Tom Oberheim was there along with the President of Roland Corp (with a translator) and a Scottish Emu sales guy that showed up in a kilt. They jokingly referred to it as "the dead president's dinner" which has lost it's luster now that Bob has passed on. Everyone laughed at the jokes three times - once when the Scotsman told it - once when someone made his English understandable to the translator - and a final time when the President of Roland got to the translated punch line. Lots of wine that night. Those were good times. Anyway, nice to meet you online - hope to do so in person some day soon.

Cheers,
Houston
Houston Haynes

fin

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Bad news?
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2008, 11:37:01 am »
The prize for most irrelevant name dropping in order to validate importance when caught spouting on the net goes to....

( jokes :) )

HoustonH

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Bad news?
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2008, 04:56:00 pm »
Quote from: "fin"
The prize for most irrelevant name dropping in order to validate importance when caught spouting on the net goes to....

( jokes :) )


"spouting on the net"?

Dude - joke all you want - but I didn't get "caught spouting". Go back to the NAMM demo for Solaris on Sonic State and listen to what John *actually says* at the end of the piece.

Quote
we lost a coding guy and [uh] we had to start, kind of, basically over again


You can snipe about name dropping - but what you witnessed here was John "adding texture" to that comment and not much more. The bottom line is that I've been there (in the synth business) done that (seen delays from the inside of a small company trying to make it) and anonymous sniping jokers have most often been nowhere and have done nothing.

( jokes :D )  :roll:
Houston Haynes

 

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