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Author Topic: Bad news?  (Read 17211 times)

DeFrigge

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Bad news?
« on: January 13, 2008, 04:24:02 pm »
I just visited the online store of one of Europes biggest music gear sellers.

During the last two months they had put the Arturia Origin online as soon available. After I had asked them for an aproximate delivery date they told me that Arturia had announced January/February 2008 as probable delivery date. ""So probably March", one of them added with a smile.

Now I went back to the site and find that they took the Orgin from their pages. From my view this might well be an indication that the Origin will not even ship in the first quarter 2008. Bad news? Well, at least more than "deafening silence", which the Arturia team seems to regard as a proper way of dealing with us. Time to forget about a device which would be nice but is no real deal, after more than one whole long year after announcement?

At least this is *no* *way* of treating possible customers!

Pip

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Bad news?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2008, 11:27:38 pm »
Yup - now it's sometime in 2008  - I suspect the project required too much RnD, capital, time etc to pull off - when it's delivered I suspect it will be there last product and not finished- shame. My money has been saved for months it is about to go elsewhere - dam I wanted a functioning Origin. :twisted:  :evil:
Later
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Antoine

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Bad news?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2008, 09:57:36 am »
If you walk-around towards Los Angeles in the following days, you might notice something roaring on the Arturia NAMM's booth (#6405 by the way)  :wink:

We've never been so close to finalization, and we assume it takes badly longer than expected, certainly causing some impatience or kind of deception, but we're sure it quite worths the waiting...

Well, open your ears at the NAMM show!  :)
ex-Arturian

Pip

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Bad news?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2008, 11:48:44 am »
Antoine great to hear, It still leaves us without any clues as to when we will be able to buy one - what is the current street eta?
Later
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DeFrigge

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Bad news?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2008, 12:26:45 pm »
Sorry, Antoine, but a demo device at Namm one year after announcement is *not* anything which will convince me to hold back my saved money much longer!

The only acceptable thing now is a reliable (+/- 2 weeks) release date. And if this release date is later than March 2008, I am definitely off. And I know from some other musicians that it is the same with them.

This is no hostility, it is just everyday music making: if you can get lots of alternatives - like Recepetor with the extremely flexible and powerful u-he Zebra 2.2, or new analog synths, just to name some of half a dozen possibilities, and Namm 2008 with the new Access Snow and others adding quite a few more - nobody will wait forever instead of grasping sonic possibilities which are available on the market, providing you with excellent sound choices.

This just means a *heavy* loss of customers for Arturia if you don't get things done latest(!) until march. Your small company, having invested so much into this very interesting development, should really consider their time table now. They will do better with a working Origin where one sound module or effect or some part of the modulation matrix is still missing than with no Origin at all. I can only warn you to run that risk.

It will not hurt you when I'm off with one of the alternatives for quite a while (no money growing on trees here), but I am not the only one ready to leave...

So please remember urgent minimum requirements of the present situation:
- clear cut, reliable time table for all your (many!) potential customers
- release date not after March!

Sibanger

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Bad news?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2008, 11:28:31 am »
I know some people are getting impatient, but the longer the wait, the more money I can save for it. :)

 Hopefully I'll be ready when it's ready.

MitchK1989

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Bad news?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2008, 12:52:19 pm »
Oh jeez, you're demanding they release it within the next few months finished or not then?  :roll:

I hope Arturia doesn't have too much invested in origin... It's expensive enough that there's a good chance it won't do well, and I wouldn't want Arturia to disappear... Losing such good software over a foray into hardware development would be a tragedy...

Sweep

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Bad news?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2008, 03:24:19 pm »
Quote from: "MitchK1989"
Oh jeez, you're demanding they release it within the next few months finished or not then?  :roll:

I hope Arturia doesn't have too much invested in origin... It's expensive enough that there's a good chance it won't do well, and I wouldn't want Arturia to disappear... Losing such good software over a foray into hardware development would be a tragedy...


Yes, I feel very much the same way.

I think Origin is a good move for Arturia, but it's chancy and I really hope it comes off.

One of the reasons its a good move is that it gives Arturia chance to show what they can do without problems from elsewhere. Their software sometimes suffers from problems caused by the shortcomings of operating sysems over which they have no control, and apparently (I haven't put this to the test myself) from compatibility issues with third-party software sequencers and so on over which, again, they have no influence. Origin at least gives them a chance to develop the entire instrument, platform as well.

My concern for quite a while is that prospective buyers of Arturia synths may be put off by the negative comments being made by people who have problems. Of course genuine problems should be addressed and not minimised, if at all possible, but there's quite a lot of anti-Arturia feeling in some quarters. It may seem more serious than it is because these forums and other Internet synth forums tend to fill up with comments from people having problems, while satisfied musicians tend to just get on with their music and aren't so noticable. But it's the perception, rather than the reality, that may affect future sales most.

While there are people whose concerns are genuine and I'm sure would be addressed, given the time a very small and specialised company needs, there are also people who exaggerate the problems - such as, a softsynth is apparently `useless' to some people if you have trouble getting software to play it for you and you have to play it by hand, like a `real' instrument.

Then there's the guy who some people take seriously who complains loudly about the MMV not being like a `real' Moog modular, despite having zero experience of the original hardware Moog modular. He's not taken seriously by people who know about Moogs, but he's fooled a few others with his lengthy lists of alleged shortcomings with the MMV.

My fear is that Arturia may be put out of business due to people being put off buying their products because of bad publicity. If that happens, by the time people realise just how good their synths are it'll be too late to buy them and any updates that would have happened will never appear either.

Some really great companies have vanished in the past. ARP is perhaps the most sadly missed. Moog went as well, but managed to come back, thankfully. It'd be tragic if Arturia went the same way - and far too late if people are then saying `hey, they were a great company. It's a pity they're not here now.'

DeFrigge

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Bad news?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2008, 05:23:01 pm »
They have excellent chances to be the first to deliver real analog sound and feel in a hardware device. Despite some bugs their emulations are very good.

Until now
- the Moog Voyager is a nice synth for it's own sound, but it does *not* sound like a minimoog
- the Moog Little Phatty comes closer concerning filters but not overall sound
- the Prophet 8 has only remote similarity with the original Prophet sounds and is *no* substitute for other analog classics
- the Creamware hardware was not bad at all, but still not close enough to the originals, and meanwhile the company does not exist any more

So Arturia definitely have their hardware chance with really nice emulations of the analog gear, coming closer than most or all so far.

*But*:
They only have a chance if they finally deliver within a *few* weeks.

I made a definite choice for myself:
For me personally they have a deadline until end of march. If I see the Origin in store until then, ready for testing, I will test it, and if it sounds great and works ok, buy it right in the store.

If not, I will immeadiately order a Fantom G workstation instead and not buy anything from Arturia for a very long time. It's as simple as that.

Others will decide for themselves, but Arturia should not underestimate the time factor for people who have been waiting for an announced product so long - unacceptably long! They might really come into very difficult business times if they don't get it done very fast now.

Pip

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Bad news?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2008, 12:07:25 am »
I'm hopeful that the origin will be delivered in the next few weeks. I suspect 2008 will see a number of improvements and delivery of a really fine machine, that said I'm in full  support of Arturia and will put my money in their pocket - assuming it's delivered no later than the end of March.
Without wanting to start a flame war on either release date or sound I find the list above a bit "odd".
Real analogue compared to VA's - Moogs not delivering, mine does. I'm not sure what the point is, other than Origin is very much a VA not an RA and it's selling point is just that :?
As for delivering real analogue sound ...well that'll be real RA then.
Later
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slammah2012

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Bad news?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2008, 06:03:03 am »
Quote from: "DeFrigge"
They have excellent chances to be the first to deliver real analog sound and feel in a hardware device. Despite some bugs their emulations are very good.

Until now
- the Moog Voyager is a nice synth for it's own sound, but it does *not* sound like a minimoog
- the Moog Little Phatty comes closer concerning filters but not overall sound
- the Prophet 8 has only remote similarity with the original Prophet sounds and is *no* substitute for other analog classics
- the Creamware hardware was not bad at all, but still not close enough to the originals, and meanwhile the company does not exist any more

So Arturia definitely have their hardware chance with really nice emulations of the analog gear, coming closer than most or all so far.

*But*:
They only have a chance if they finally deliver within a *few* weeks.

I made a definite choice for myself:
For me personally they have a deadline until end of march. If I see the Origin in store until then, ready for testing, I will test it, and if it sounds great and works ok, buy it right in the store.

If not, I will immeadiately order a Fantom G workstation instead and not buy anything from Arturia for a very long time. It's as simple as that.

Others will decide for themselves, but Arturia should not underestimate the time factor for people who have been waiting for an announced product so long - unacceptably long! They might really come into very difficult business times if they don't get it done very fast now.


- the "Creamware" hardware was not bad at all, but still not close enough to the originals, and meanwhile the company does not exist any more
The name creamware is not manufacturing....however all of the Creamware developers work for Soniccore which is continuing the creamware line under soniccore....


http://www.sonic-core.net/en/products/synths.html

I might add, I have a real hammond, and an ASB B4000 which are very close except for the weight loss, and the prodyssey I have includes a moog filter, and about 10 more oscillators than my original had.....
the sounds are very real... I am seeking the Origin so I can replace my CS80 on the road.... and I look forward to its polyAT which a fantom G wont have...

DeFrigge

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Bad news?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2008, 11:38:39 am »
Quote from: "Pip"

Without wanting to start a flame war on either release date or sound I find the list above a bit "odd".
Real analogue compared to VA's - Moogs not delivering, mine does. I'm not sure what the point is, other than Origin is very much a VA not an RA and it's selling point is just that :?
As for delivering real analogue sound ...well that'll be real RA then.


Pip, I've been playing the Minimoog and later the Moog Prodigy.
My disappointment with the present Moog line is that they sound fine, but in my ears not quite like the original(s), despite being RA.

That's what I liked about Arturias VAs, that they - of course not sounding identical - still come closer to the originals than much other gear around, *including* RA and VA.

So what you find "odd" is exactly what I meant: that in my ears Arturia might have the chance to deliver a hardware VA which has a more fat and smooth 'analog' sound, compared to the originals, than the competition.

If your opinion differs, no problem and certainly no flame war, but I stay with mine...

DeFrigge

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Bad news?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2008, 11:57:40 am »
Quote from: "slammah2012"
I might add, I have a real hammond, and an ASB B4000 which are very close except for the weight loss, and the prodyssey I have includes a moog filter, and about 10 more oscillators than my original had.....
the sounds are very real... I am seeking the Origin so I can replace my CS80 on the road.... and I look forward to its polyAT which a fantom G wont have...


Hi slammah,

I heard about sonic core, but I don't see devices like the Minimax in the big online stores since a while: so I guess until now there is nothing but *plans* to continue the product line?

Concerning "sounds are very real", opinions differ.
Creamware Minimax and Arp were fine from my view, but not as close as the Arturia emulations.

For me that's not quite the case with the B4000: I regard it as one of the worst Hammond clones on the market, completely missing the warmth of the original, having a basic plastic sound character and sounding especially dreadfull if you play rock, r&b or jazz solos in the upper ranges. I could go into details here, but this is not the place to do so.

So same in this case: no flame war intended. If your judgement is completely other than mine, I have no problems with that.

And for the Fantom G: this is no Synth alternative at all, but a workstation with advanced Live features not to be compared with the Origin. I just can't afford buying both and will decide as I said.

Sweep

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Bad news?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2008, 12:32:22 pm »
Just an observation -

I haven't tried the Creamware MiniMax myself, but I know two musicians who played the MiniMoog extensively during the 70s who now use the MiniMax instead. I don't want to name drop, especially when it comes to comments on instruments, but both are professional recording artists - one is regarded by many as one of the great synth pioneers and the other recorded some well-respected MiniMoog solos.

One told me the MiniMax was `very close' to the original MiniMoog. It's evidently close enough, as he could easily get another Mini if he wanted to. (He also spoke well of the Arturia MiniV, BTW)  The other bought the MiniMax after playing the first musician's instrument.

Of course it depends on what you want to do. If an instrument is very close, but the one thing it doesn't quite do is the thing you want, then it's not the instrument for you. On the other hand if it exceeds the Mini in other respects, it'll be your choice. But I thought the opinion of two Moog-experienced professional musicians counts for something.

DeFrigge

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Bad news?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2008, 02:36:25 pm »
The problem with real Minis is that they are too precious and too vulnerable to take them to gigs. Even people heavily relying on them in the studio, like Lillo Scrimali and others, hardly ever do that.

So the Minimax, never out of tune and polyphonic, for most musicians using it is clearly the better choice for rehearsals and gigs. It's a fine piece of gear, no doubt.

But I still prefer the for my ears even more smooth and fat sound of Arturias Mini and Modular emulations, comparing VAs with the origninal ;-)

 

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