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Author Topic: Important Notice  (Read 24178 times)

Sweep

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Important Notice
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2007, 01:21:12 pm »
Ok, here's the link to the Moog site discussion that I promised in the above post:

http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4250&start=0

doctec

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Important Notice
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2007, 03:05:55 am »
I know I'm going out on a limb here, but for what it's worth...

While I would not make any pretense of having a clue as to how an analog synthesizer performs its magic, much less knowing how that magic is emulated in software, much less knowing where an emulation falls short of the real thing, I can't help but feeling that getting on Arturia's case over the shortcomings of the MMV relative to an actual Moog Modular really isn't going to accomplish much of anything regardless of the merits of the case.

I didn't plunk down my hard-earned cash for the MMV with any allusions as to its ability to replicate in software with immaculate accuracy a piece of hardware that costs 50 times as much as what I paid for the software.  I bought the MMV because I liked the sound of the software when I played with the demo and thought it would be a good addition to the my arsenal of soft synths.  I didn't buy it because I expected the emulation to be flawless in every respect.  The mere fact that it is billed as an emulation, in itself, is a case of truth-in-advertising.

I use a number of different soft synths in my music making and I find that while each one has it's advantages and drawbacks, in general my ability to turn the sounds I hear in my head into reproducible audio, as well as to stumble on new sounds as I experiment with each soft synth's capabilities, results in recordings that meet my exacting standards to a much greater degree, and at greatly reduced cost, than if I were to amass the kind of hardware arsenal associated with outfits like Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze or any other well known electronic music artist with gobs of money to spend on acquiring and maintaining every electronic gizmo in existence.

And I've got more news for you: the MMV is not the only example of "sloppy programming" in existence as far as synth emulations go.  I'm not going to name names, but I've run into problems of some sort, both large and small, with virtually every soft synth I've ever worked with.  In my view, it's the nature of the beast.  If you're going to cut corners and use a piece of software to replicate the functionality of a hardware equivalent costing many times more than the emulation, you've got to figure corners are going to be cut.  You're a fool if you think otherwise.

So yeah, while there are many holes in the MMV and a case can indeed be made that Arturia has dropped the ball as far as getting them plugged is concerned, in the final analysis it meets my needs and that's all I care about.  I have no allusions of living in an ideal world as far as music software is concerned - I'm just glad I can do the kinds of things with it I could only dream of doing back when hardware synths and recording studio gear was the only option.

iain

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Important Notice
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2007, 12:09:31 pm »
I'm new to the forum and have no opinion yet either way about the MMV's bugs because I am too much of a newbie to have encountered them. However I was of course concerned to see Elhardt's big bug list elsewhere in this forum.

I was therefore confused when I read:
Quote from: "Sweep"
it was also confirmed that he [Kenneth Elhardt] has absoluterly no experience whatever with the Moog modular.


Sweep, please could you explain whether this means no experience with the MMV or with the hardware Moog Modular?

Sweep

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Important Notice
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2007, 12:34:31 pm »
No experience with the hardware Moog modular.

Iain, you're exactly the kind of person I've always been worried might be put off by Kenneth Elhardt's endless complaints about the MMV. I'm glad you haven't been.

The MMV isn't perfect, but the original Moog modular certainly wasn't perfect either, going by the comments of people who've used it. Even Wendy Carlos, who has a much improved and customised modular doesn't use it now (except, I think, a few modules sometimes) and prefers her digital keyboards.

But probably there's no such thing as a perfect instrument anyway.

The MMV is certainly a brilliant instrument, though, and Doctec's comments hit the nail on the head in several respects. I've found it very surprising sometimes in what it's capable of, even though I have quite a few years synth experience and I've also listened to a lot of music made with the original Moog modular.

Take time exploring it, and if you have any questions post them here and I or someone else will try to respond constructively (instead of bitching about bugs like certain others we could name :D). This is a bit of a quiet site, unfortunately, though, so you may find other groups helpful as well. There's a Yahoo group that may be useful as well. Actually there are two, but go for the one called `Moogmodular' and not `Moogmodularv' as the latter has some problem or other (I think the only person with an administrator's password left or something like that, so people moved over to the other group).

iain

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Important Notice
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2007, 02:10:27 pm »
Hi Sweep

Well I admit I was put off a bit by the comments! However they do appear to be "power user" concerns which I probably won't encounter in my more modest use of the MMV.

I say this not to belittle Elhardt's considerable effort in documenting the bugs, but rather to emphasise that one man's mountain is another man's molehill. (so to speak!)

If I have a complaint about the usability of the MMV, it's the documentation - the multi-language manual is both physically ungainly and not very beginner-friendly in its contents.

I do understand the principles of subtractive synthesis, so I'm not a complete newbie, but the terse explanations of the modules ("modulation: controls the modulation" and suchlike) aren't very accessible.

Still, I'm pleased and impressed by the warmth of the MMV sound, which makes an interesting (and creative) contrast to other VSTis in my collection such as Absynth.  8)

Sweep

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Important Notice
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2007, 12:22:07 am »
I'm not even convinced they're power user issues, to be honest, but I can see the point you're making.

I agree about the manual. I even wondered whether to offer to Arturia to re-write it at one time, but I thought it'd be too much work to be worthwhile. Not so bad if a few of us did it, but dangerous to offer and be the only one. :D

I don't get the impression Arturia would want to go to the expense of a revised manual anyway. If they'd followed my suggestions for a secondary software pack with additional modules, though, it might have been worth it. (The additional modules I suggested were one-offs that Bob Moog did that weren't part of the standard Moog catalogue.)

I think the best way to discover the Modular V is to check out the patches supplied with it and the ones available for download from the site. You can "analyse and experiment" (tech talk meaning "fiddle about") until it becomes apparent how the sounds are achieved, and however many changes you make you've never lost anything because the original patch is always still there. Anything you discover can be saved under a different filename.

However much or how little you know about the theory of synthesis, the real guide is always your ears.

Ted Perlman

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Re: Important Notice
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2007, 04:00:15 am »
Quote from: "Anonymous"
Thanks for your understanding


Who are YOU? Your name is listed as "guest". If you were one of the Arturia buttheads, you'd have a real name, right?

So who are YOU to give any advice here about anything?

iain

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Important Notice
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2007, 11:39:38 am »
Thanks sweep.

And ted perlman - chill! Life is too short to get angry about forum postings.  8)

Ted Perlman

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Important Notice
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2007, 09:14:48 pm »
Quote from: "iain"
Life is too short to get angry about forum postings.  8)


Life is a bit darker when you realize how immoral the people who make some of the best sounding software instruments really are. Especially when you thought they were honorable people.

Vincent T

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Important Notice
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2007, 02:55:10 pm »
Hello Ted, as you see, i'm not hiding, my real name is "vincent", and i'm one of the "Arturia buttheads" (nice formulation).

Quote from: "Ted Perlman"
Quote from: "iain"
Life is too short to get angry about forum postings.  8)


Life is a bit darker when you realize how immoral the people who make some of the best sounding software instruments really are. Especially when you thought they were honorable people.


and it's not immoral to write this kind of things on Arturia's forum, maybe?
do you know us to call us "Arturia butthead" ?
what is your problem, Ted?
now i'm waiting for serious arguments...

:twisted: GRrrrr
Vincent
DSP Arturia

Sweep

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Important Notice
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2007, 03:42:21 pm »
Hi, Vincent.  Hope you got my PM with the link I promised to the demo pieces recorded with the MMV and 2600V.

Ted Perlman

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Important Notice
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2007, 09:31:43 pm »
Quote from: "Vincent T"
do you know us to call us "Arturia butthead"what is your problem, Ted?


Your immoral and butthead boss uncermoniously dropped me from your pro endorsers group. He attributed his reasoning to unfounded lies. No matter how many emails and letters I wrote, he never responded. Until, however, I accused him of being prejudiced, which he responded immediately to. In a most negative and nasty manner. I have worked with Arturia for many years, and even wrote some of the presets for the Moog Modular and the Mini Moog 5. A few of my presets are included in Analog Factory. I thought I was dealing with decent and honourable human beings. Alas, I was toatlly wrong. Your bosses are real lowlifes, who have no remorse when lying. Sad...

slammah2012

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You have lost all credibility
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2007, 08:56:49 am »
Ted

You have lost all credibility with me.... :oops:

Please......take responsibility of your own "Personal" problems and get them the F** off of the Forums......
I am here to learn about product information, not to learn about how you have been done wrong to.....
I am a paying customer........ :arrow: I never received a free batch of anything from a software developer, And with your constant negative personnel issues , You are undoubtedly not going to receive anymore here.......

Maybe NI is taking resumes for preset writers...............Im sure they have a slot for you..........

Ted Perlman

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Re: You have lost all credibility
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2007, 11:01:43 am »
Quote from: "slammah2012"
You have lost all credibility with me


I've lost credibility with someone who is afraid to post under their own name? Sure, that'll keep me up at night.

slammah2012

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A Nom anus
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2007, 03:13:29 pm »
I post via nickname  by choice ....not an ounce of fear chooses this for me.....
Fear is non existant in my world....
Perhaps a new "nightmare" catagory can be established so you can fill it with doubts and Mossad undermining's between bed wettings....

 

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